Curse

AtomicMew · Nov 13, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

...Instead of bitching about it in 5 different threads. We all think that it is subpar so how about we fix it? It IS a wiki.

So I'm thinking: Caller, bomber, resto, curser

Like so:
Caller:
[Assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional]
Bomber:
[discord][signet of lost souls][bone minions][death nova]
Resto:
[discord][signet of lost souls]
Curser:
[discord][signet of lost souls]

*not done yet*

PS: before you even BEGIN to think of saying something like "lolol the mods will just rv" remember that I'm standing behind you ready to kill with a blunt spoon.

Daesu · Nov 13, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

...Instead of bitching about it in 5 different threads. We all think that it is subpar so how about we fix it? It IS a wiki.

So I'm thinking: Caller, bomber, resto, curser

Like so:
Caller:
[Assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional]

First of all, your caller build is hardly the most effective for all professions and you want the build to be a great build right? Even if you look at pvxwiki here:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...general_builds

How many Paragon builds do you see with that AP template? That's right, none.

What do they have for an elite? [[Focused Anger], [[Song of Purification], [[Song of Restoration (pve)], and even [[Stunning Strike]. Let's give this another chance and look at ALL the approved PvE Paragon builds:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...general_builds

How many Paragon builds do you see with that AP template? That's right, none again!

We can go through the same thing for warrior builds and see how popular your template is but you can already guess what the result would be. So now, you can understand why some players do not think this is such a great template at all for their physical classes.

Quote:

Bomber:
[discord][signet of lost souls][bone minions][death nova]
Resto:
[discord][signet of lost souls]
Curser:
[discord][signet of lost souls]

*not done yet*

PS: before you even BEGIN to think of saying something like "lolol the mods will just rv" remember that I'm standing behind you ready to kill with a blunt spoon.

The build can actually learn a thing or two from the sabway build concept. Sabway maybe outdated but it is cleverly designed. It consists of healer, minion bomber, curse buffer. Minion bomber provides the flesh wall to protect the rest. Healer heals all, and curse necro buffs the damage from minions using Barbs. I think you should consider the curse line for your discord hex and conditions needs and add enfeebling blood.

the savage nornbear · Nov 13, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

[[meekness]
[[enfeebling blood]
I don't think a blunt spoon would kill me.
This thread is gonna go down in flames.

Axel Zinfandel · Nov 13, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Make that 6 different threads

/fail

daze · Nov 13, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Should i make a discordway thread too just to make it lucky # 7?
+

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

How many Paragon builds do you see with that AP template? That's right, none.

What do they have for an elite? [[Focused Anger], [[Song of Purification], [[Song of Restoration (pve)], and even [[Stunning Strike]. Let's give this another chance and look at ALL the approved PvE Paragon builds:

How many Paragon builds do you see with that AP template? That's right, none again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Also, AP Discordway definitely does work on paragons. It's not ridiculous at all.

I run [assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][there's nothing to fear][anthem of flame][fall back][go for the eyes][signet of return]
@12Deadly, 14 leadership, 4 command
Having near permanent TNTF and a party heal every 10 seconds helps tremendously.

Energy is more than enough. 2 pips doesn't even matter when AP is like, what, ~15? I use a caster spear and Bison Cup (lol finally a use for it) for 41 energy. I can AP-YMLaD-FH like 4-5 times before running out of energy AND keep up TNTF the whole time. If I really need energy (like if I miss AP) then I can just auto-attack for a few seconds and get 7 free energy from GftE.

AtomicMew · Nov 13, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

First of all, your caller build is hardly the most effective for all professions and you want the build to be a great build right?

Actually, it is the most effective for paragon too. The only class that it isn't is maybe warrior, but I don't know since I haven't played it with warrior. Generally speaking, AP-caller is the best possible build for the player. The fact that paragons only have 2 pips of regen is meaningless because AP is like 15 pips and paragons have lots of built in e-management due to leadership.

Quote:

What do they have for an elite? [[Focused Anger], [[Song of Purification], [[Song of Restoration (pve)], and even [[Stunning Strike].

Do you honestly think any of those elites even come close to AP? AP means you can instantly spam 3 conditions, a knockdown and almost 300 damage on every target every couple seconds. Stunning strike lets you use... 1 condition every 10 seconds.

Quote:

How many Paragon builds do you see with that AP template? That's right, none again!

AP caller is specific to discordway. It would be pointless to have an individual paragon build using AP, since it isn't general.

Quote:

The build can actually learn a thing or two from the sabway build concept. Sabway maybe outdated but it is cleverly designed. It consists of healer, minion bomber, curse buffer. Minion bomber provides the flesh wall to protect the rest. Healer heals all, and curse necro buffs the damage from minions using Barbs. I think you should consider the curse line for your discord hex and conditions needs and add enfeebling blood.

I actually agree. I don't know why you have to be so antagonistic.... I even said basically the same thing in the OP.

Nightow · Nov 13, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I've seen plenty of discordway threads lately but I have yet to have seen a single team build for this that's accepted by everyone. When I saw this thread, I thought this might be different from the other 5 but nope! Come on guys, think!

Oh, and to the person complaining about AP on a paragon, just use Asuran Scan then.

AtomicMew · Nov 13, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Okay, so continuing...

Caller:
[Assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional]
Bomber:
[discord][signet of lost souls][animate bone minions][death nova][foul feast][infuse condition][protective spirit][aegis]
Resto:
[discord][signet of lost souls][putrid bile][protective was kaolai][weapon of warding][optional][optional][optional]
Curser:
[discord][signet of lost souls][putrid bile][meekness][barbs][enfeebling blood][rip enchantment][animate bone minions]

Okay, several questions:
1) To res or not to res? I generally don't take res on my heroes, mostly out of principal.
2) What should the resto bar be? I usually don't take life, since heroes are stupid with it and makes them slow and I don't like micro-ing.
3) Any essential skills missing?

the savage nornbear · Nov 13, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

I like [[life] for [[spirit light] and [[mend body and soul]/

Nightow · Nov 13, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

I like [life] for [spirit light] and [mend body and soul]

Seconding this because without a spirit, you're relying on less efficient heals basically.

psion · Nov 13, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Okay, so continuing...

Caller:
[Assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][optional][optional][optional][optional][optional]
Bomber:
[discord][signet of lost souls][animate bone minions][death nova][foul feast][infuse condition][protective spirit][aegis]
Resto:
[discord][signet of lost souls][putrid bile][protective was kaolai][weapon of warding][optional][optional][optional]
Curser:
[discord][signet of lost souls][putrid bile][meekness][barbs][enfeebling blood][rip enchantment][animate bone minions]

Okay, several questions:
1) To res or not to res? I generally don't take res on my heroes, mostly out of principal.
2) What should the resto bar be? I usually don't take life, since heroes are stupid with it and makes them slow and I don't like micro-ing.
3) Any essential skills missing?

you are using [foul feast] and [infuse condition] just to get rid of conditions in PvE? IMO you're wasting 2 skill slots on that necro. You're better off bringing spirits + mend body and soul on the n/rt. I'll swap [rising bile] with [foul feast] and a hex removal with [infuse condition].

AtomicMew · Nov 13, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by the savage nornbear

I like [[life] for [[spirit light] and [[mend body and soul]/

Okay, I can live with that.

Also, to everyone else, it's pretty obvious that were not going to get everyone to agree on which bar is the "best" so let's agree to find a bar that is at least "decent" in everyone's opinion. Then we can suggest a bunch of optionals/variants.

For example, personally, I don't take life/spirit light, since I hate microing spirits, but I can see that it is at least a decent option.

Nightow · Nov 13, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Edit: Nevermind, too tired to think right right now.

AtomicMew · Nov 13, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by psion

you are using [foul feast] and [infuse condition] just to get rid of conditions in PvE? IMO you're wasting 2 skill slots on that necro. You're better off bringing spirits + mend body and soul on the n/rt. I'll swap [rising bile] with [foul feast] and a hex removal with [infuse condition].

I disagree with rising bile; things die too fast for it to be useful, and it has a long recharge. For hex removal, convert hex?

Daesu · Nov 13, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Actually, it is the most effective for paragon too. The only class that it isn't is maybe warrior, but I don't know since I haven't played it with warrior. Generally speaking, AP-caller is the best possible build for the player. The fact that paragons only have 2 pips of regen is meaningless because AP is like 15 pips and paragons have lots of built in e-management due to leadership.

No it is not. Using SY is more effective than that build because of +100 armor near invincibility for everyone in the team.

AP's strength is in skill recharge which is useless for SY since it recharges only if you have the adrenaline.

And you dont need 3 conditions, you only need one to activate discord. Discord is the main damage skill, all you need from your Paragon is the awesome invincibility which you are missing out of.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 13, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Caller:
[Assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf][finish him][optional][optional]

One of my biggest issues with running PvX Discordway is that some professions just don't handle certain roles that well, and the general template is no exception. It sucks. Don't even make one. Just advise everyone that they have at least one hex and condition to apply.

[[Finish Him] doesn't make sense for causing the conditions, unless you're just fighting a boss. [[You Move Like A Dwarf] is slightly more sensible in general, but expensive. The only ones I'd picture needing it is something like a Monk or Rit that don't have other good means for inflicting conditions. [[Assassin's Promise] is just silly as a general elite. Melee professions should bring [[Asuran Scan] for an effective hex.

Just as a general idea, here's what I might suggest for a Ranger:

[build prof=R/X][Broad Head Arrow][Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Apply Poison][Asuran Scan][optional][optional][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]

I'll leave constructing the heroes' builds to people more understanding of those roles.

Daesu · Nov 13, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

One of my biggest issues with running PvX Discordway is that some professions just don't handle certain roles that well, and the general template is no exception. It sucks. Don't even make one. Just advise everyone that they have at least one hex and condition to apply.

[[Finish Him] doesn't make sense for causing the conditions, unless you're just fighting a boss. [[You Move Like A Dwarf] is slightly more sensible in general, but expensive. The only ones I'd picture needing it is something like a Monk or Rit that don't have other good means for inflicting conditions. [[Assassin's Promise] is just silly as a general elite. Melee professions should bring [[Asuran Scan] for an effective hex.

Just as a general idea, here's what I might suggest for a Ranger:

[build prof=R/X][Broad Head Arrow][Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Apply Poison][Asuran Scan][optional][optional][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]

I'll leave constructing the heroes' builds to people more understanding of those roles.

That makes sense. Stating that AP is the best elite for every single profession in the game, in most situations, is just not going to be convincing. Better not to post a caller template, than one that you have problems defending for all classes.

MercenaryKnight · Nov 13, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Curser should drop minions, bring shadow of fear instead of meakness. Resto rit can be either recovery/ life spirit and the typical heals they bring mend body and spirit light. Minion bomber I prefer prot spirit and aegis just like original sabway bomber because it's useful in any situation.

Daesu · Nov 13, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Curser should drop minions, bring shadow of fear instead of meakness. Resto rit can be either recovery/ life spirit and the typical heals they bring mend body and spirit light. Minion bomber I prefer prot spirit and aegis just like original sabway bomber because it's useful in any situation.

Another post that makes sense. We are not saying it sucks because we are being antagonistic. Most of the suggestions so far are good.

Barbs support Discord and amplify minion damage at the same time. Enfeebling blood would be useful in case your minions are not up yet or they are killed by AoE, or not enough corpses in that area, etc. You only need 1 MM minion bomber. You dont need so much dependence on minions so your build would not suffer even in low corpse areas.

daze · Nov 13, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I really only bring a 2nd mm when i do a 6 hero Discordway. Otherwise, one hero with minions is plenty.

Also i agree with the previous people about your restorer. [life][mend body and soul][spirit light] should be stapled to any N/rt